Incentives Matter: Gold and Silver Edition -

Incentives matter.
This is a fundamental economic principle that seems to be completely lost on most people.
In this special episode of the Midweek Memo podcast, host Mike Maharrey brings in Sound Money Defense League Director Jp Cortez and bullion dealer Craig Rhyne to talk about the impact of a state sales tax on gold and silver bullion recently passed by the Washington state legislature. Not content to just suck it up and watch his business get throttled by the new tax, Rhyne moved to Idaho. 
Jp describes efforts to stop the tax. He and Craig explain why sales taxes on precious metals are so perverse. And Craig takes us through the agonizing decision he made to save his business.
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Mike opens the show by reminding listeners he lives in Florida.
"There are reasons we chose to live here. For one thing, we hate being cold, and we love the beach. But we also took the tax policies into consideration. By leaving Kentucky, we avoided state and local income taxes. That saved us thousands of dollars per year. Believe me, that was part of the moving calculus. And this underscores a fundamental economic truth: Incentives matter."
Mike emphasizes that while you may not approve of how people respond to the incentives created by a given program or policy, you had better take that response into account.
"Most people don’t. They tout the easily identifiable perceived benefits of their program and ignore all the unseen potential outcomes that could ultimately unravel their plans."
Economist Frédéric Bastiat tackled this phenomenon in his famous essay "That Which Is Seen and That Which Is Unseen."
“Between a good and a bad economist, this constitutes the whole difference — the one takes account of the visible effect; the other takes account both of the effects which are seen, and also of those which it is necessary to foresee.”
Mike notes that there are a lot of really bad economists out there. 
"And it seems like most of them found their way into government."
Some of them were elected to the Washington state legislature, and they recently passed a bill levying a sales tax on gold and silver bullion. 
"I’m actually traveling this week, and it is tough producing a podcast on the road, so for the first time in Midweek Memo history, I’ve got a couple of guests coming on the show. In just a moment, I’m going to bring on Jp Cortez and Craig Rhyne, and they’re going to share with you the impacts of another policy debacle in Washington state. The legislature there just levied a sales tax on gold and silver.
"Craig is a bullion dealer who built a business in Washington. He’s moving it to Idaho. Why? Because incentives matter!"
<h2>Full Interview Transcript</h2>
Mike Maharrey:
All right, so let me bring in JP and Craig to the show. How are you guys doing today?
Jp Cortez:
Good. Mike, doing well.
Mike Maharrey:
So you guys are very special. This is the first time that the midweek memo has ever had guests. It's usually just me, so people will probably enjoy this. They're probably sick of hearing me ramble. So it's great to have you guys on. So I thought what we would do is I'd like to kind of start with Craig. And Craig, if you can just kind of share, how did you get into the bullying business? How did you build your business in Washington, and what kind of led you up to the drama that took place last year?
Craig Rhyne:
Well, I grew up on the Olympic Peninsula of Forks in Washington State. My father had a trucking business. The short story is he died. We went and bought gold when it was $42 an ounce. We bought silver for $1.29. That was after I read Harry Brown's book, How to Profit From the Coming to Valuation. And that got us going. And we started doing that when it was very unpopular, as it is still today. And then that became the reason for me, after graduating from the University of Washington, to start a company selling gold and silver. And I started Sea Rhine and Associates. In Tacoma, Washington, it morphed into Rhine Precious Metals and became the biggest dealer in the Northwest in the '80s. In the '90s, it failed. Just tried to meet everybody's prices after we had trained most of the people and then they would go off and start their own business.
Craig Rhyne:
I was one of the co-founders with Jim Blanchard and others of the Industry Council for Tangible Assets in 1983. Tried to get Nick of Deke Pereira. I mean, these are names from our history involved, but then he got killed. But then we started in 1983, forming a state association called the Washington Coin and Bullion Association because there was a sales tax on gold and silver in Washington state. And the House, Senate, and governor were all controlled by Democrats. But these were people that understood business. They understood how good it is to have business in their state, that the golden goose will lay golden eggs if they approve of businesses. And so we got a bill through in 1985 to eliminate the sales tax on gold, silver, platinum, coins, and bars. And we had 40 years of that exemption from business and occupation tax, which is a half percent gross receipts tax.
Craig Rhyne:
And then the sales tax, and then the state sales tax went up to 6.5%. But if you add the state, the local and city taxes and county taxes, 10.3%. So the legislature just changed progressively worse to be made up of mostly people who have never signed the front of a check. They've never paid a payroll.
Craig Rhyne:
They receive money from the public trough. And a lot of them are attorneys and love to make more laws. And they just think that they can just run people out of business. So after a 40-year successful tax policy supported by five Democratic governors in the state of Washington, they went nuts a year ago. They wanted more money. So they went through all the different exemptions that had been carefully worked out over the years by different parties, including gold and silver dealers. And we testified, I mean, it was a joke. We testified a year ago when we were fighting the bill at the last minute, and here your life is on the line, your business is on the line, and they wouldn't even give what they used to give, which is three minutes to testify. We had one minute to testify, to justify our existence before these people.
Craig Rhyne:
And one minute, if you know what that's like, you can hardly get your name out in one minute. And so anyway, the bill, we lost that. We hired lobbyists. We reformed the Washington Coin and Bullion Association, which has been active since then. And I'm the old guy on the team. And we've got about 40 dealers in Washington State, about half of which have put money into it, which is great, and paid dues, but a lot of freeloaders, too, that don't support it. But I moved the Washington Gold Exchange. I filled out all the forms for a new corporation in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, moved as of January 1st of this year. And I'm in Idaho as we speak right now, because I do have the office set up, but I don't have a residence yet. So I've been looking around at different places to rent or buy and just trying to keep alive, trying to sell gold and silver.
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Craig Rhyne:
And in the meantime, I hope that the leftist Democrats in our legislature will get enough pressure to reinstate the exemption in the next session.
Mike Maharrey:
It's crazy because we look at policy and we forget that there are human beings that are being impacted by this policy. And I'd be curious, how did you deal with the stress and the psychology? You've got these, I don't even know what to call them. We'll just call them politicians. That's about as dirty of a word as I want to say on my podcast. But you've got these folks that basically have your livelihood in your hands. How did you handle that stress?
Craig Rhyne:
Well, I'm old. And so with age comes some more temperate views. So instead of screaming and carrying on, I have used the power of the pen to send out newsletters to my mailing list. I mean, I've got 3,300 people that I contact. I've also been the one that's been the communication guy with the Washington Coin & Bullion Association. So I started thinking about how divided our country is. And for example, my daughter hasn't spoken to me in eight years. She canceled me, so that's representative of what's happened in society. 38% of all families in America are estranged. It's just sad. So the same thing is happening in the legislatures, where you have progressively more leftist, socialist-minded legislators who just think that America is bad, that the rich aren't paying their fair share. I'm so sick of hearing that. Yes. Pay your fair share. When 40% of the taxes are paid by the upper 1%, they are paying their fair share.
Craig Rhyne:
But these birds in these different states that want to put sales tax on, what do you think is going to happen to the capital base now? We've already lost Howard Schultz from Starbucks. He's moved to Florida, and Bezos has moved to Florida. I mean, these people are so damn dumb. There's no other way to describe it. It's just crazy.
Mike Maharrey:
Yeah. As a Floridian, I thank you guys for sending us those fine folks. So JP, I know that you and the Sound Money Defense League, you were involved heavily in trying to get this stopped. What was the political environment like when you started to try to talk to people and push to get this stopped? What was the response that you got from the legislators?
Jp Cortez:
Well, I think Washington's experience is indicative of that of many others. Like Craig eloquently said, these are legislators that are seeking every single tax dollar that they can possibly find. And if they see an industry, any industry, in this case, it happens to be gold and silver, but they see cash cows, and they're seeing an industry from which they can extract tax dollars. So unfortunately, last year, Washington did go ahead and exempt their repeal their longstanding exemption. And unfortunately, they weren't the only ones who did this. Maryland, as well, introduced and passed legislation to reimpose a tax on the purchases of gold and silver. And unfortunately, I think as some of these states are dealing with greater fiscal issues and they're looking into their couch cushions, trying to find any tax revenue they can to fill their massive budgetary deficits, you'll see that there have been more pieces of legislation just like this.
Jp Cortez:
So I said last year, Washington and Maryland imposed a new sales tax in their states. Just this year, we had to fight battles in Nebraska and Colorado, and are currently fighting in New York, where legislation has been passed, or where politicians want to reimpose this tax. And in the case of New York, for example, like what Craig was saying, you have progressive leftists, the socialist Mayor Mandami, for example, in New York City, who is working in arm in arm with legislators in Albany, in the state legislature, telling people that if they impose this new tax on gold and silver, they're going to raise $600 million per year for the state, $300 million just for New York City by imposing this tax. And these politicians, who, like Craig said, have very little experience running a business or barely balancing their own checkbook, are saying, "Wow, look at these tax dollars that we can find." And it creates this really tragic scenario where store owners, business owners like Craig, have to uproot their entire business and leave.
Jp Cortez:
Craig, can you tell me? I think I read somewhere that with these new taxes, the state of Washington was making more on every purchase than you were as the dealer. Can you tell us a little about that?
Craig Rhyne:
Sure. My normal markup these days on an ounce of gold is a hundred bucks. So with gold at 4,737 as we speak, say a one-ounce Gold Eagle is costing say two or 3% over spot. So the coin is 4,800 bucks, 4,850. The state of Washington wants $483. So who in their right mind, who in Washington state that is sane, would pay 485, 500 bucks basically more for their gold to buy it from a local dealer than to get on the phone and call someone in Portland or Coeur d'Alene, where I am now, or Montana or another state. And it's just a shame. I mean, before Washington and Maryland did this, we counted 46 states that had exempted precious metals because gold and silver are money. They're the real money. They're defined in the Constitution as money, gold, and silver, not these Federal Reserve notes that we have now.
Craig Rhyne:
So anyway, it's just been strange.
Jp Cortez:
Yeah. And it creates this scenario. It's very clear that lawmakers don't understand this industry, and they don't see that bullion purchasers, investors in gold and silver, are uniquely mobile. In Washington's case, your bordering states, both Oregon and Idaho, are not taxing precious metals. So anyone in Washington would simply have to drive to their nearest border or go online and go to an online dealer to avoid this tax. Yet lawmakers believe that by imposing this tax, they're going to rake in tens of hundreds of millions of dollars. And that's simply not the case. I'm happy to say that in Maryland, we were actually this year have been able to reverse this tax. So they imposed a new tax last year. This year, we worked with legislators there to get bills introduced, and we testified at committee hearings, and ultimately, that bill was approved by the legislature.
Jp Cortez:
It's currently sitting on Governor Westmore's desk in Maryland. And so they realized after just one year of dealers coming in and testifying, I was at a hearing where a dealer said, "From one day to the next, we lost 72% of our business. No one is willing to come in and buy metals and pay this tax when it's so easy to avoid this tax." And so Maryland realized we have to make an about-face. We've made a huge mistake. Dealers are shuttering their doors, investors are leaving, tax dollars are leaving. And so they've realized the error of their ways. And hopefully, in Washington, between Craig and his efforts with dealers in the state and with the Washington Coin & Bullion Association and other sound money advocates in the state, the idea is to convince lawmakers to get them to see that they're making a huge mistake.
Jp Cortez:
And this tax essentially strangles a business. It's impossible to function when the state is asking for seven, eight, nine, 10% on top of the cost of the actual medal.
Craig Rhyne:
One of the things I wanted to say is, Michael, I hope this is okay. There's an organization in Washington state called the Joint Legislative Audit Committee, and they're supposedly independent, but they're a staffing organization created by the legislature. And their job is to assess the income or loss based on various laws. And strangely, they came up with a number that was so implausible. It's so nuts. They said that the Washington State would have $54.6 million, something like that, over a biennium if they put sales tax back on gold and silver. The trouble is, the head of the National Coin and Bullion Association, they did a study, and they found out how bogus this is, and they were having conversations with the Washington JLARC, it's called the JLARC Committee, and JLARC wouldn't even follow up with them because they were such bogus, unbelievable numbers. So, the Washington legislature, like Maryland did, they decided based on these numbers that are not substantiated, that are bogus, that they should just put an entire industry out of business.
Craig Rhyne:
It was just awful.
Jp Cortez:
And importantly, or maybe more egregiously, this has been in the works for many years. I had the great pleasure of meeting Craig out in Olympia many years ago, in 2019, maybe was it? Where lawmakers were saying, "Oh, look, gold and silver, we should tax that. " And for many years, Washington lawmakers have come and taken multiple bites at the apple trying to get this new tax imposed, trying to raise tax dollars any way they can, regardless of the fact that gold and silver are constitutional money. And they've had their sights trained on gold and silver for years. And Craig's efforts and our efforts and the efforts of many others have kept them at bay. But unfortunately, this time it was just too much to overcome.
Mike Maharrey:
Yeah. It's interesting talking about the number crunchers. This is not an anomaly. It seems like all of these legislative commissions, I think, pretty much all of the legislatures have one. They all do this. I've seen it in multiple states. And of course, the Congressional Budget Office does the same thing. If you ever look at their forecast, they always assume the most rosy of prospects, right? We're going to have economic growth as far as I can see. And so all of their assumptions are so poorly done, and that's frustrating. And you mentioned, Jp, that it seems like they don't understand the gold and silver business. They don't seem to even understand human nature. If you can extract yourself from a painful situation, you're going to do exactly that. And that's what Craig has done. I mean, I did it to some degree. Part of the reason I live in Florida is because there's no state income tax.
Mike Maharrey:
So how do you deal with folks as you're trying to influence and change this policy? How do you deal with folks that just seem to be so ignorant? How do you overcome that? I'll leave that to both of you to kind of try to play that out.
Craig Rhyne:
My experience is, well, I'm old. I'm not doing internet business, and I like face-to-face meetings, and I like showing coins and rolling them on the hard surface and hearing the ring that they make when they turn around. And just simply showing what the consequences are of the sales tax and what a gold coin is, what silver is, and just really starting to give nuts and bolts from the beginning. As far as moving, I've met with two different attorneys on the border of Spokane and then in Idaho, three different accountants to see about whether or not to move. And they were all conclusive because, based on the Supreme Court Wayfair decision of 2018, these aggressive departments of revenue, they investigate everything they can. They're worse than the IRS. And so what we found is the only way to avoid the sales tax with my Washington clients was to move entirely and then to have them pick up their coins in Idaho, not to have them shipped into Washington.
Craig Rhyne:
That is verboten. The departments of revenue can't go after that. They've been working on this a lot. But I had found out, for example, if someone wanted to store in a depository in Texas or a Delaware depository or an IRA account with storage in Las Vegas, those are all exempt from sales tax. So Washington residents can buy gold and silver and not pay sales tax if they have an IRA in another state. So anyway, a lot of wiggling around to avoid the tax legally. Yeah. Yeah.
Jp Cortez:
It's really fascinating to watch the lengths that businesses will go to. Like Mike was just saying, if you're in an uncomfortable or a painful position, you will make efforts to get yourself out of that. I remember when, in 2024, we worked to help pass the sales tax exemption in New Jersey. And I was at a conference later that year, and a precious metals dealer based in New Jersey came and told me, thank you so much for removing this tax. I had this entire drop shipment operation in Pennsylvania, just over the border, where people would buy metal from me. I would send it to this undisclosed place in Pennsylvania, and they would come pick up there because there's no tax in Pennsylvania. And this is what dealers are having to do to get around a state that has shown that they want to extract as much as possible from responsible, legally operating dealers.
Jp Cortez:
To your question, Mike, about how to approach lawmakers, I think what Craig was saying earlier about these fiscal notes and how these revenue projections can get up to the tens of hundreds of millions in some cases, the flip is also true. The reality is that the art of fiscal making of this kind of projection oftentimes is more art than science. And so for example, I have a fiscal note from a bill that we passed, I think, or helped pass in 2022 or 2023, that eliminated the sales tax exemption on purchases of gold and silver in the state of Tennessee. The state of Tennessee is very comparable to the state of Washington as far as its population. So transactionally, you can kind of extrapolate that the numbers might be similar. In Tennessee, they found that by exempting gold and silver from tax, the state was only going to lose $360,000 a year.
Jp Cortez:
How can it be that a state so like Washington is projecting that they're only going to lose $360,000 while the state of Washington is projecting that it's going to lose $50-some odd million? It's literally made up in some cases. And these are politicians that are seeking to impose new taxes.
Craig Rhyne:
Yeah.
Mike Maharrey:
It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? You can massage the numbers to make them look however you want to make them look to drive your point. It would be really interesting, maybe this would be a fun journalism project to actually go back and look at some of these fiscal notes on some of these bills that passed, particularly when you have tax increases and then go and compare the forecast to what the actual numbers turned out to be because I bet that would be a very stark contrast between the forecast and the reality because as you said, and that's kind of the theme here. Incentives matter. People are going to figure out a way, which I guess the good news of that is it does show the resilience of human beings and markets. We figure out ways to deal with the barriers that are put in our path.
Craig Rhyne:
Well, another thing I wanted to add too is that 360,000 lost to the state of Tennessee by reinstituting the exemption. Think about the other incidental income from those people that were in those businesses that you lose. So, for example, I have employees, and our other 40 coin dealers in Washington State have employees. Those employees are paid. They have income. They buy goods and services and pay sales tax, and it goes down through the economy, a trickle-down effect, and it's just absurd. I mean, my family first came to Washington State in 1899. I love this state. This is my home, but now they don't give a damn. I've left the land of my upbringing. It's just sad.
Mike Maharrey:
It is sad. And again, that really underscores the human aspect of this. We're not just talking about dollars and cents and policy and taxes. We're talking about real people's lives. And I really hope that the folks that are listening, that is kind of the part that sinks in. When you see these debates, I think it's important to really focus in on that human aspect.
Jp Cortez:
Craig, if you don't mind me asking, so you have, like we've been talking about, you had a longstanding decades-old business, a successful business in Washington, and because of actions from the state legislature, you were forced to shutter your doors, pick up the entire operation, and move across the border to a more favorable jurisdiction. What would it take you to go back? Is there anything that … Has the state of Washington lost you forever?
Craig Rhyne:
Well, JP, I've got to be totally honest here. I would probably come back, but I wouldn't come back to the woke King County. It is refreshing to be in Northern Idaho and not have anti-capitalist people. It's just really nice that way, but I would probably move back so I could be closer to family and friends from a lifetime in my own state. So that's an interesting one. Right now, I'm thinking I will survive. I've opened this business as of January 1st. I've got a new corporation, new IRS number. I mean, I've done all the due diligence to do that. And I know other dealers, even our board members on the Washington Coin & Bullion Association, have done the same thing.
Jp Cortez:
Wait, I'm sorry. Did you say other dealers that you know have left Washington? It's not just you?
Craig Rhyne:
Well, I'm not clear on it because when we get together, we spend our time organizing who we're going to meet and which fundraise, who we're going to go to support this summer and who we think will be our spokesman, our champion when the next legislative session starts in January. So we are still thinking positively about overcoming this and reinstituting the exemption. So we don't really talk about our businesses and where we're going, but I know at least one other coin dealer, I think he opened an Oregon office on the board, and then one of them has not thinking that maybe she can make it on just buying. But the other part of this thing is so nasty, this B&O tax, I'm sure you're aware of it, JP, it's a gross receipts tax. So if I buy 10 ounces of silver or a hundred ounces of silver from a customer, if I resell it to a dealer in Texas, for example, and have to ship it, I still have to pay one half of 1% B&O tax to the state of Washington.
Craig Rhyne:
So you can lose money and still you owe the tax.
Jp Cortez:
Yeah. The state will come for its pound of flesh one way or the other.
Mike Maharrey:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So to wrap up, what I would like for each of you to do is if you have any thoughts on what folks that are listening can do, and of course, most people aren't going to be in Washington state, so I don't know that there's anything specifically they can do with that. But just in general, as we try to process what has happened to Craig and knowing that this is not just something that's specific to one state, this is stuff that happened … And it's all over the country. What advice would you give folks? What can people do to engage and possibly prevent this from happening other places and maybe to fix things in Washington?
Craig Rhyne:
Well, I certainly hope that there will be some help for our efforts in the next legislative session, 105 days, which starts in January. And it's very interesting. One of the senators who's a leftist from India who first supported getting rid of the exemption a year ago, she has since then come and visited the president of our association, Carolyn Biko, who's co-owner of Redmond Rare Coins. And this senator came and saw that, oh, the buyers are normal people. They're not rich fat cats who are flaunting. They're paying their "fair share" in the state of Washington. So we hope that more people will see what we're doing and help fund our lobbyist. We have a lobbyist, Mark Jurassic and Chet Baldwin, their team, and one is an attorney, Chet is. And we really could use support. Our website is Washington Coin and Bullion Association. And I'm trying to remember if it's org or if it's comm.
Craig Rhyne:
So I'll look that up.
Mike Maharrey:
And I'll make sure the proper link is in, excuse me, in the show notes. Okay. What about you, Jp?
Jp Cortez:
I think that Craig just made a really interesting point about this former legislator who has maybe spent a little time educating herself and kind of realizing that people who buy precious metals many times are of modest means. People buying every paycheck, every two weeks, buying a couple silver coins, things like that. And it reminds me very much of something I've seen in New York State recently, where I mentioned earlier that New York intends to use gold and silver investors as a bailout plan for their massive budgetary shortfall. And I'm reminded during these hearings where the senator that's behind, primarily behind these proposals to tax precious metals, often refers to precious metals owners kind of derisively. He calls them owners or buyers of Glen Beckcoins. It's very obvious. Oh
Craig Rhyne:
Geez.
Jp Cortez:
He refers to all precious metals owners. If people want to buy their Glen Beccoins, the state shouldn't be giving them a tax break for doing so. And it's so clear that there's political bias and obviously just complete uneducation of the industry as a whole. And so, maybe to Craig's point, part of the answer to this question has to be education. Letting these legislators, helping them understand this is not a tax break for the wealthy. Elon Musk isn't swimming in a pool full of golden coins. This is a
Craig Rhyne:
Cartoonish
Jp Cortez:
Understanding of gold and silver investors. The other side, I would say, is part of its education. The other part, and I think what the Salmone Defense League does and what Craig and the Washington Coin and Bullion Association do, so much of it, we have found a power in grassroots. So if you don't believe you have power in DC, frankly, you're probably right. But in Olympia, in Nashville, Tennessee, in Lincoln, Nebraska, in Salem, Oregon, in Boise, Idaho, in state capitals, you, the individual, does have a voice and that's very powerful. So I encourage everyone, if you receive alerts from the WCBA, if you receive alerts from the Salmone Defense League that are asking you to participate by reaching out to legislators by email or by phone, I strongly encourage you to take the action because we have seen over the dozen years that we've been doing this at the Salmoney Defense League, time and time again, legislators are quoted as saying, "Man, we heard from half the state on this issue and that's why we passed this gold bill." Or, "Man, we were going to pass this bill and then we received immense grassroots pressure from people in the state and so we're not doing this anymore." So I would encourage everyone to participate.
Mike Maharrey:
Yeah. And I can reiterate that having worked in the world of state legislatures and state policy level actions, type of stuff, you definitely have much more of an impact as an individual voice than you do in Washington DC. And I think people get jaded, right? We feel like, "Oh, nobody's going to listen to us," but there is hope, and there are things we can do. And Craig, just put in our chat, it is. Org. So it is washingtoncoinandbullionassoc.org, and then also SoundmoneyDefense. Are you. Org too? Soundmoneydefense.org. I'll make sure both of those links are in the show notes page as well, so that you can access those. But I really appreciate it, guys. I talk a lot about on the show about incentives and policy and the way it kind of works. This puts a human face on it, and I'm really, really happy to do that.
Mike Maharrey:
And Craig, I'm sorry that you've had to deal with this, but I really respect the fact that you're resilient and you seem to be making the best of the situation as you can, and you seem to have a pretty good attitude about it. So I'm sure there were many moments that you wanted to strangle a state legislator or two,
Mike Maharrey:
But just appreciate your fact and your kind of steady voice of reason, because I don't think I would be as calm as you are in that
Craig Rhyne:
Situation. Well, and to your point, Michael, we started to get rid of the exemption in 1983. I mean, this is before Jo was born. 
Mike Maharrey:
I was in high school.
Craig Rhyne:
And we failed. And then we went back in 1984, a year later, and the education process continued. Then we finally got it through in 85. It took three years. Well, now with less business Democrats, but a more active and a more communicative membership, we think we could be able to get the exemption in the next session. I also wanted to comment that I was given flak by one of our board members of the Washington & Bullion Association by calling out Democrats killing an industry. It kind of rocked this person because I think they're a leftist, they're a progressive themselves, and on our board. But I always remembered the old saw that I don't care what they say about me in the news media as long as they spell my name right. And having coverage like this is crucial. And we are right now, we have a board meeting today where we're deciding on all these different interviews that we've done to have the links to them put on our website.
Craig Rhyne:
And we need to create information. We need to spread the word. So this is fabulous what you guys are doing. JP, you have testified beautifully on different occasions on behalf of this industry in Olympia, and my hat is off to you both for the work you're doing here. This is fabulous.
Mike Maharrey:
I appreciate that. And I'm going to sing JP's praises a little bit here because I've had the privilege of working with him both in this front and then also in some other legislative efforts. And the work that the Sound Money Defense League is doing is absolutely fantastic with the support of money metals. And just JP, you're one of the most effective … I won't use the term lobbyist because that kind of has a bad connotation, but you're one of the most effective workers on the state legislative level that I've ever met. And I really do appreciate that. I mean that sincerely, that's not … I like to be nice to the people on my show, but I sincerely mean that you do fantastic work. And I have no doubt that as we go down the road, we're going to get this reversed in Washington because the facts are on our side.
Mike Maharrey:
So with that, we're going to wrap this up, but thank you guys both so much for spending a little bit of time with me. This is a fantastic first guest episode of the Midweek Memo podcast. I'm really excited to get this out and I'm sure folks will enjoy it. So thank you guys both very much.
Craig Rhyne:
Thank you. Thank you. Really appreciate it. God bless.
Mike Maharrey:
God bless.
<h2> Articles & Links Mentioned During the Show</h2>
<a href="https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2026/03/19/incentives-matter-tax-edition-004771">Incentives Matter: Tax Edition</a>
<a href="https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2026/04/24/incentives-matter-minimum-wage-edition-004864">Incentives Matter: Minimum Wage Edition</a>
<a href="http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">That Which Is Seen and That Which Is Not Seen</a>
<a href="https://washingtoncoinandbullionassoc.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Washington Coin Bullion Association</a>
<a href="https://www.soundmoneydefense.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Sound Money Defense League</a>

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