The Fed Hiked. Gold Didn’t Get the Memo. -

Welcome to this week’s Market Wrap Podcast, I’m Mike Gleason.
Coming up, we’ll hear a tremendous interview with Chris Powell of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, or GATA. Chris explains why his firm has concluded that the gold futures market in the United States was deliberately created some decades ago expressly to produce a vast imaginary supply of gold for price suppression purposes.
Chris also shares concerns on recently reported story about how stablecoin issuer Tether is now lending out some of its 113 tonnes of gold, which may undermine gold’s primary function as a backing asset.
And then Chris explains how even despite short term fluctuations and various corrections in gold, the massive, potentially uncoverable short position in the gold derivatives market, makes owning the metal a strong long-term bet for investors.
So, be sure to stick around for another wonderful interview between Money Metals’ Mike Maharrey and Chris Powell of GATA, coming up after this week’s market update. And as a reminder, if you enjoy this material, please do us a favor and like and subscribe to this podcast wherever you consume this content.
Well, so much for the idea that higher interest rates automatically mean lower gold and silver prices.
The Federal Reserve raised rates this week for the first time in three years. And if you listened to the conventional Wall Street wisdom, you might have expected precious metals to get clobbered. They did take an initial hit. But then something interesting happened. They turned around.
As we record this Friday morning, gold has pushed back toward $4,400 an ounce, while silver has climbed back to over $67. So, gold has bounced back the last couple of days since the Wednesday Fed announcement, while silver’s comeback is especially noteworthy.
Remember, silver got absolutely hammered during the correction earlier this month. It fell from above $70 an ounce all the way down into the low $60s. But silver has now bounced several dollars off those lows. More importantly, it is beginning to show some technical signs that the correction may have run its course.
Analyst Clive Maund recently took a close look at the silver charts, and he sees several encouraging developments. On the longer-term chart, the recent selloff still looks like a correction within the much larger advance that came before it. Selling pressure also appears to be easing. And on the shorter-term chart, silver appears to be forming what technicians call a “cup-and-handle” pattern.
I’m not going to turn this into a technical-analysis seminar. The basic idea is pretty simple. Silver sold off hard. It found buyers. It rebounded. And now it appears to be building a base from which it could potentially launch another move higher.
If silver can break convincingly above nearby resistance, Maund thinks that would provide additional evidence that a new uptrend is underway. Of course, there are no guarantees when it comes to charts. And if silver has taught us anything this year, it’s that the white metal can make some violent moves in both directions.
But the fact that silver is showing technical strength immediately after the Federal Reserve raised rates is particularly interesting. It flies in the face of one of the most persistent bits of conventional wisdom about precious metals.
You’ve probably heard it a thousand times. Gold doesn’t pay interest. Silver doesn’t pay interest. Therefore, when interest rates rise, investors should dump precious metals and move their money into interest-paying assets.
There is some logic to this. But there’s also a pretty big hole in the argument. It ignores inflation. What ultimately matters isn’t simply how much interest you’re earning. It’s how much purchasing power you’re gaining — or losing — after inflation.
Consider the 1970s. Interest rates rose dramatically during that decade. If higher interest rates were automatically poison for precious metals, gold should have been dead in the water. Instead, gold went on one of the greatest bull runs in its history because inflation was also running rampant.
In 1974, for instance, a 3-month Treasury bill yielded around 7.4 percent. That sounds pretty good — until you realize consumer price inflation peaked around 12 percent that year. That supposedly “high-yielding” Treasury was still losing purchasing power.
And there’s another problem with the higher-rates-equal-lower-gold narrative. Why is the Fed raising rates in the first place? Well, because inflation is becoming a big problem. And why do people buy gold? Well, one of the big reasons is because inflation is a problem.
So, the very conditions forcing the Fed to raise rates can also strengthen the case for owning precious metals.
And then we have the elephant sitting in the room. Debt.
The federal government is carrying roughly $40 trillion of debt. Higher interest rates make financing that enormous debt load more expensive. That means bigger interest payments. Bigger deficits. More borrowing. And eventually, even more pressure on the Federal Reserve and the monetary system.
This is why we’re skeptical when people confidently tell us the Fed is simply going to crank interest rates higher and leave them there until inflation disappears. There is a price to pay for doing that. And with this much debt sloshing around the system, that price gets very expensive very quickly.
So, while everybody obsesses over whether the Fed hikes another quarter-point at its next meeting, something much bigger is happening underneath the surface. Governments, central banks, institutions, and wealthy investors around the world continue positioning themselves for a monetary system in which gold plays an increasingly important role.
And one of the clearest signs is what’s happening in Asia.
Singapore is rapidly building itself into a major gold trading and storage hub. And apparently, they’re running out of room.
DBS Group, Southeast Asia’s largest lender, is expanding its bullion storage capacity because of growing demand from private-wealth and institutional customers. OCBC Bank has also reportedly been talking with precious-metals storage providers about securing additional space. Deutsche Bank is considering similar moves.
And Le Freeport — the giant high-security facility sometimes called “Asia’s Fort Knox” — is reportedly running short of premium basement vaulting space.
Think about that for a second. While Western investors debate whether they should sell gold because the Fed moved interest rates by a quarter of a percentage point, institutions in Asia are scrambling to find places to put physical bullion.
Singapore already has at least 2,200 tonnes of privately operated gold-storage capacity. And the Monetary Authority of Singapore plans to make its own vaulting facilities available to sovereign entities and foreign central banks.
Singapore is also preparing to launch an over-the-counter gold clearing system through the Singapore Exchange, designed to handle both the 400-ounce bars common in Western markets and the 1-kilogram bars favored in Asia.
Hong Kong is making similar moves. It has revamped its gold futures market, launched a clearing and settlement system, and plans to expand vaulting capacity to 2,000 tonnes over the next three years.
This isn't happening by accident. For decades, London, New York, and Switzerland have dominated the global gold trade. But gold has increasingly been moving from West to East. And now the infrastructure is following the metal.
New vaults. New clearing systems. More physical settlement. More capacity for central banks and institutional investors.
That strikes us as a much more important long-term story than whether the Fed funds rate goes up another quarter-point. And it also helps explain why gold has been so resilient.
The old playbook says higher interest rates should crush gold. But gold isn't trading solely on what the Federal Reserve does anymore. Central banks are buying. Asian demand remains strong. New physical gold infrastructure is being built. And governments around the world continue piling up debt and debasing their currencies.
Well before we get to this week’s interview let’s recap the market action here.
Gold, platinum and palladium are all seeing very small gains for the week. Gold is up about $30 or 0.7% to check in at $4,390 an ounce. Platinum is up less than 0.5% to come in at $1,818. And palladium is up 0.3% to trade at $1,330.
But silver, as we mentioned earlier, is outlier – having moved up more than $2 an ounce this week or 3.4% to come in at $67.37 an ounce as of this Friday late morning recording.
Next week will be telling for the white metal. Perhaps the rally will fizzle out after the big advances we’ve seen here each of the last couple of days of this week. Or maybe we will see some follow-through and another run at $70 and possibly beyond in the days ahead. Time will tell, so stay tuned.
Well now, without further delay, let’s get right to this week's exclusive interview.
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Mike Maharrey: Greetings. I'm Mike Maharrey and I'm joined today by Chris Powell. Chris is the secretary and treasurer and one of the directors at the Gold Antitrust Action Committee, also known for GATA for short. He is a fellow journalist having served as the managing editor of the Journal Enquirer in Manchester, Connecticut from 1974 to 2018 and has been following the gold and silver markets for quite some time as well. How you doing today, Chris?
Chris Powell: Oh, I'm very glad to be with you, Mike.
Mike Maharrey: Well, it's a pleasure to have you on the show as well today. It's always fun to talk to you. You're one of the people that makes me laugh. I wish people could read our email exchanges because you're funny. But anyway, before we get into the current goings on in the markets, I really would like for you to just take a moment and let folks know what GATA does so they have some context about what you do. I know a lot of folks have heard you before, but for folks who don't know, just kind of give the elevator pitch for GATA's work.
Chris Powell: Well, we formed in late 1998 to investigate and expose and complain about and litigate against what we saw as manipulation of the gold market. We were also interested in silver. We, I guess, incorporated as a 501 tax exempt organization in early 1999. After a year or two, we figured that our original plan, which was to sue the bastards for rigging the market, was not likely to work because the bastards were the government and the government was fully authorized by the Gold Reserve Act of 1934 to rig not just the gold market in secret, but to rig any market in the world in secret. And our lawyers told us that we were probably out of luck suing for the manipulation that way. The government was fully authorized to manipulate market surreptitiously. We decided then that, well, all we could do is try to gather the documentation and expose the manipulation because it could work only in secret by deceiving people.
We figured if we could expose it widely enough, we would defeat it that way.
Well, we were a little naive thinking that we'd get much attention from mainstream financial news organizations, but 26 years later, we have gotten a fair amount of publicity around the world. I know we have brought our work to the attention of central banks, and I think all major central banks know about our work and know about the manipulation now and are responding to what they know and what they've learned from us. But manipulation of the gold and silver markets is not over. In fact, just the other day, the United States Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Bessent, boasted in public that he was manipulating the currency markets. He declared, "I am the house. Bet against me if you want." I don't know why we should have too much trouble now convincing people of gold market manipulation since the treasury secretary is admitting that he is the house.
I mean, that's basically what we've been saying for 26 years.
But anyway, we've done a good job, I think, exposing the manipulation. We have more challenges in getting the documentation around because mainstream financial news organizations do not want to cross the government on this issue, but we're still at it. We put out dispatches every day. We invite people to sign up for our mailing list, and we certainly welcome contributions since we're federally tax exempt in the United States. Donations to GATA are federally tax deductible in the United States. And of course, you may get on a troublesome list if you donate to GATA. I mean, we have to report our donors over, I guess, $5,000, but I don't think anything's happened to our donors yet. So, I'm still hopeful that we can make trouble without going to jail.
Mike Maharrey: Nice. Yeah, you guys do a fantastic job, and I can sympathize with the difficulty of getting mainstream attention. It's hard to even get them to pay attention to gold, much less manipulation. So you're definitely fighting an uphill battle, but fighting it well and appreciate all of the resources that you bring to the table. And it's also nice for folks who don't follow your work, you not only cover the manipulation, but you guys do a great job of just covering the gold market in general. You highlight a lot of the work we do over at Money Metals in reporting just regular market news. And so if you're not on GATA's mailing list, I would highly encourage you to get on it because you'll get a really good overview of what's going on in both the gold and silver markets as well as the currency markets too.
So, thank you for that. We appreciate the support that you guys give to us over at Money Metals. So before we get into the gold manipulation, I wanted to just touch on the Fed meeting that just wrapped up yesterday as we're recording this. So, it wrapped up on Wednesday and the central bank decided to raise interest rates by a quarter point, and I don't think anybody was shocked by that, but I just wanted to bring it up because I would argue that the Fed is the ultimate financial system manipulator because they're literally manipulating the price of money. What were your thoughts on the rate hike? What kind of effect do you think that it might have? And I guess maybe give your view on whether you think it was the right move or not, although I'm not sure that there is a right move when it comes to central banks playing with money prices, but I just … Yeah, go ahead.
Chris Powell: From the point of view of the way the Fed does business, of course they can see that as the right move. I just inclined to your commentary today that a quarter point increase in interest rates is nothing compared to the continuing explosion of deficit financing by the US government. I mean, practically every couple of weeks there's another trillion dollars on the deficit and a quarter point interest rate increase. I mean, that's nothing. In fact, hardly anything is something compared to the deficit spending in the United States. We're in an age now in the United States and really around the world too of infinite money creation and infinite money creation is infinite price inflation. It's infinite government power, it's infinite corruption. To bother with a quarter point increase in interest rates in these circumstances, it just strikes me as absurd.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah. It's almost like throwing a bucket of water in the ocean, right?
Chris Powell: Yeah.
Mike Maharrey: But it's interesting because I would argue, and I think you'll probably agree with me, that this massive expansion of the money supply that is really necessary when you have this level of government spending and borrowing, that's part of the reason that the powers that be feel the need to manipulate the gold market, right? Would that be a fair assessment?
Chris Powell: Yes. It's part of the deceptive purposes of gold price suppression policy. It was to conceal inflation, conceal the implications of government deficits, and they've been getting away with it for a long time, but they haven't been getting away with it terribly well over the last year and a half or so.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah, it's interesting because I think a lot of this attempt to hold things in place is starting to unravel a little bit. You mentioned Bessent and his efforts to manipulate the currency markets, and we saw him trying to poke around and push down the yields on the long end of the bond market and didn't work. I think maybe four or five years ago…
Chris Powell: Worked for a few hours…
Mike Maharrey: Well, yeah, that's true! I'm being a little bit unfair. Yes. Yeah, for a minute or so. But yeah, so it's interesting to watch them scramble to try to keep a lid on things. Let's talk a little bit about some of the other issues that are in the news that might lend to this or feed into this discussion. I wanted you to speak a little bit about the news that London financial regulators are starting to talk about tokenizing gold. Now, I don't think a lot of people really understands what that means, and I honestly haven't really followed closely this kind of tokenization thing that's going on. Can you explain first off, what are they talking about doing, and in your view, what are the ramifications?
Chris Powell: Well, I think it's just another mechanism, an entity that they give to people and say this represents gold and you can have it if you want to. London is full of paper gold. The United States is full of paper gold. It's gold that is not really gold, but it is a pledge by a financial institution to give you gold if you want it or to hold your gold for you. The problem with futures contracts and paper gold has been that the gold at the base of the system has been vastly oversubscribed. That was the whole purpose of creating the gold futures market in the United States was to create a vast imaginary supply of gold that could be used for price suppression and the confidence that people accepting paper gold would never turn it in for real metal and so that they could create an imaginary supply.
I think that's what we see with this pressure in London to have the financial authorities authorized tokenize gold. It might be just another electronic claim on gold that may or may not be in possession of the issuer of the token.
I don't know why anybody who really wanted to own gold would hold gold that way. I can imagine why bullion banks and central banks would want to create another ticket that merely says that you have gold or we owe you some gold. But yeah, they want to tokenizing gold in London, which was really the center of the paper gold business. And Asia's not buying this anymore. I mean, Asia has figured this out. I met a few years ago with a couple of central banks in Asia, and while they were playing their cards very close to the vest, I gave them all the documents of gold price suppression policy, and a lot of central banks in Asia refused to meet with me, but I still sent them the documents. They know what's going on. And for the last couple of years, they have been building their own gold trading infrastructure.
Certainly China has been ahead on this, but other countries are doing it too. They want out of the Western paper gold system, and everyone has seen gold flowing from the West to the East as Western paper is being redeemed by Eastern interests for real metal. Why would they do that? They would do this only if they realize that the paper gold system in the West is a sham, and they're doing it because they want an alternative to dollar hegemony. And gold is the only alternative to the dollar as a reserve currency. I mean, China knows that given its totalitarian form of government, that the UN is not going to function as a reserve currency, but it could gain value as an intermediary to a real physical gold market, and that's what they're building over there. This is also damn obvious. I don't know why London is talking about tokenizing gold.
I mean, that rig is up.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up because this was actually one of the questions I wanted to bring up, the build out of that infrastructure in Asia. So you just answered all my questions. You're leading into the future. That's very good. Impressive. But yeah, so there is a futures market in China, the Shanghai futures, they have a futures market in Shanghai, but it's much more oriented toward delivery of metal. Is that correct?
Chris Powell: Yes. And they are building vaults now in Hong Kong and Singapore and planting them in other places because they envision the gold business converting into a physical gold business where you get delivery in a day if you ask for it,
Not a lot of paper shuffling. I mean, this is obvious. This is happening in the open. Chinese officials were talking about really converting to gold years ago. If you read closely in the publications over there, the world, or at least the neutral and eastern central banks have figured that gold is the only alternative for national sovereignty against the US dollar. If you're going to use somebody else's currency, you're going to be a slave to that issue of the currency. The world is figuring out that if you want your own sovereignty, if you want your financial independence, you're going to have to rely on gold.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah. And I should note that the reasons that these central banks and these institutional investors in the east are piling up physical gold are the same reasons that investors here in the United States should. It's the currency debasement. It's the constant money printing and borrowing and spending and all of these things that we talk about, and they see the writing on the wall.
Chris Powell: Yeah. The Financial Times had a story this morning saying that the Chinese holdings of US Treasuries is at the lowest level it's been since 2008. And they even quoted a Chinese analyst as saying that China was unloading dollars and getting into gold and other commodities.
Mike Maharrey: So in your view, as this continues to evolve and Asia ostensibly gains ground in becoming more and more important and functional within the global gold market, do you think it's going to become increasingly harder? I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask anyway because I want to hear your comment. Is it going to be increasingly harder for the powers that be in the West to continue to hold prices down?
Chris Powell: Yeah, look, it's already happening. I mean, the gold price has been going up the last couple of years precisely because the Central Bank anti-gold coalition has broken up. I mean, even European nations in the last few years have been purchasing gold for their reserves and announcing it, and we are reasonably confident that many countries are purchasing more gold than they're announcing. I mean, even 10 or 15 years ago, Saudi Arabia got caught purchasing more gold than it was reporting to the IMF. Gold is going up because central banks have divided on the gold issue. They most used to be united in keeping the gold price down in support of the dollar, but also in support of their own currencies. And now many central banks, very big ones, China and Russia particularly, have decided, no, we don't want to do that anymore. We need an alternative to the dollar.
We need an alternative to control by the United States, and there is no alternative except gold.
Mike Maharrey: Yep. One of the worst kept secrets in the entire world is the fact that China is accumulating gold far faster than they're announcing. And they're actually announcing pretty significant expansions to its gold supply, but it's far more than that. And Jan Nieuwenhuijs has done some great work in running the numbers and at least being able to estimate how much more gold that China's buying, and it's substantial.
Chris Powell: Yes, his work has just been essential to this issue for years. I mean, it's accepted now, but he was saying this years ago.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah. Yeah. And it's good because other people, as you say, at some point, the narrative starts to fall apart and you're starting to see a little bit. I mean, the Financial Times reported on the additional gold accumulation not too long ago. So some of the mainstream people are starting to at least whisper about it every once in a while. So I would say that's probably an improvement.
Chris Powell: Yes, but they still can't touch the long history of policy for suppressing the gold price. The government documents that show that this was Western policy was to keep the price down. They can no longer ignore the gold acquisition by more countries around the world and particularly by China, but they can't touch the policy issue.
Mike Maharrey: Now, this was an article that you guys featured in your GATA newsletter. And again, I'm going to encourage listeners to subscribe if you have not. It's one of my favorite emails that I get in my inbox, the various stories that you guys report on, and it's a great resource for what's going on out there in the market. And one of the things you guys reported on is that the stablecoin issue, Tether, is lending its gold. And so maybe first, if you can just give folks a little bit who may not be familiar, what is Tether? Why do they have gold? And what does it indicate by the fact that they're lending it?
Chris Powell: Yeah, well, it's this stablecoin issuing company, which I guess is the largest one in the world. They issue these so-called stable coins which are supposed to maintain a one-to-one value against the US dollar, and Tether to underwrite its stable coins. It purchased a lot of US treasuries and it purchased a lot of gold. I think they've said they've got something like 113 tons of gold, but there's a Bloomberg story today that we dispatched saying that they're now lending their gold to bullion houses, coin manufacturers and things like that. Well, if they're lending the gold, then it can't be in their treasury backing their stable coins. It's got to be in one place or the other. It sounded to me like they're kind of getting into the paper gold business just like the big bullion banks in the United States and London, where your gold can be in multiple places at the same time as long as nobody asks you to deliver it to them.
But that was the Bloomberg story today that Tether, the supposedly gold-backed stablecoin, is leasing its gold. There's no difference. I mean, it's JP Morgan or the Bank of England years ago or whatever. That's just going back to the original racket.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah. Yeah. And therein lies the rub, right? It's a lot like fractional reserve banking. It all works fine until everybody wants their money, and that's when things can get really wonky. And I think we saw that a little bit in the silver market this past year in January of this year, where a lot more people were wanting that physical metal, so delivery got difficult and you saw this price squeeze.
Chris Powell: We remember the Bank of England. They had to make an announcement that it was slow on repatriating gold to people who had been vaulting the Bank of England because there was logistical problems getting it out of the Bank of England basement. Well, they'd get the British Army Corps of Engineers over there if they wanted to, that would get the gold out of the basement in 24 hours. But even last year, even the Bank of England was saying, "Oh, it's bulky, it's heavy, it takes us a while to move it around." Oh, sure, guys.
Mike Maharrey: Right, right. Well, it's easy to move paper around, and they're doing an awful lot of that. So, I want to ask you this, and I'll wrap up on this one. And I probably asked you this question before, but I like to bring this question up anytime I talk to folks who are reporting on and who are aware of this type of manipulation in the gold market. Some people I know will say, "You know what? It's a manipulated market. I'm not getting involved in it. I don't want to have anything to do with it because how can I trust it if it's manipulated?" How would you respond to somebody like that who spurns gold because they're worried about this manipulation?
Chris Powell: Oh, it's a legitimate thing to wonder about, but I would certainly begin by referring them to the gold chart of the last few years, or if you want to take an even longer view, refer them to the gold chart over the last few decades. I mean, certainly the trend now is up. Secondly, if you own gold. Jim Reckard said, I don't know, 15 years ago on CNBC, he was permitted to say it, which surprised me. He said, "If you own gold, you're fighting every central bank in the world." Well, that was 15 years ago. Well, if you own gold today, you've got half the central banks on your side. They're buying gold. Presumably, they're better informed than we are about a lot of things. So, you've got some governments on your side now. And thirdly, if you're aware of what gold price suppression policy has done, has issued a lot of imaginary gold, has been part of a massive short position, uncoverable short position in gold, then if you're owning gold now, you're betting against the collapse of that short position.
And I think that's a good bet. Now, some of us, I mean, look, I'm 76, and while I'm still dressing myself, usually by dinnertime, I may not live to see the full collapse of the short position in gold. On the other hand, there's a lot of people who are following this issue think that gold is going to be officially revalued precisely to get out of this uncoverable short position. So there's a lot of reasons to own it, but if you're going to own it, you got to remember that while a lot of central banks now see gold's virtues again, there's still some powers in the world, including the US Treasury and Federal Reserve, and I suspect the Bank of England too, that don't want you to do well. And if they can knock you in the jaw every once in a while to discourage you, they will.
You've just got to have a backbone and a little bit of a long view.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah. And I think that long view is key. For me, I'm not one of these people that want to try to play the weekly move in gold price. That's just not my game. I'm looking to preserve my wealth over the long term. I think, as you mentioned, you can just look at the charts and you can see that despite whatever manipulation is going on, gold does that job and it does it very well. And it's a little bit, don't you think, like the old cartoons where the dam is springing holes and the guy's sticking his finger in the different holes? At some point, you lose control of that. And I think we're increasingly seeing in a lot of the trimmers in the markets that the powers that be are having a little bit more difficult job in trying to -
Chris Powell: Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. They are losing control. And look, if they were still in control, the prize in every Cracker Jack box would be a Louis d'Or (a historic French gold coin). I mean, that would be the ultimate objective of their policy, would be to devalue gold so much that it'd be a cheap cracker jack prize. Well, they're losing and every day they're losing faster.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah, that's a great analogy. So, let folks know where they can follow the work at GATA and give us your links and where we can follow the work.
Chris Powell: Sure. Our internet site is gata.org. If you'd like to subscribe to our daily dispatches, they're free. There's a little signup mechanism in the right top corner of the GATA homepage. I mean, you got to give us your email address, of course, so we can put you on the list, but no salesman will call. It's absolutely free. And as you said, we try to keep people informed about not only things that are touching on the rigging of the markets, but also things that I think bear on the future of the monetary metals, the future of money, and things that just might be interesting to people who are following gold and believe, as we do, that the monetary metals are crucial to human liberty.
Mike Maharrey: Yeah, absolutely. And again, you guys do a fantastic job of that. In some ways, you guys are one of my go-to places. Your dispatch has helped me find things to write about and report on over at Money Metal. So I encourage people again to get on that email list. I think you'll find a great deal of value in it and appreciate the work that you guys are doing. Do a fantastic job, and it's always a pleasure to chat with you. I'm sure we'll have you back on in the not too distant future. Until then, I hope all remains well and you continue to be able to dress yourself on a daily basis. That's a goal that we can all aspire to, right?
Chris Powell: I am wearing pants right now.
Mike Maharrey: Same, same. I'm not necessarily wearing pants that match the shirt though. I will confess that.
Chris Powell: Same here.
Mike Maharrey: Well, thank you again, Chris, and we'll stay in touch and we'll talk to you again soon.
Chris Powell: Thanks very much, Mike.
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Always love hearing from our good friend Chris Powell at GATA and I hope you enjoyed that interview as I did.
Well, that will do it for this week. Be sure to check back next Friday for our next Weekly Market Wrap Podcast. And to check out any of our audio programs, including our second podcast, the Money Metals Midweek Memo, just visit <a href="https://www.moneymetals.com/podcasts">MoneyMetals.com/podcasts</a> or find them wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. And as a big help to us we would ask you to please like, subscribe, download and rate our podcasts. Doing so helps us extend the reach of this material.
Until next time, this has been Mike Gleason with <a href="https://www.moneymetals.com/">Money Metals Exchange</a>, thanks for listening and have a wonderful weekend everybody.

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